Conversations with "true believers" - contacting Eric Hovind. 

 So I recently watched a video of Eric Hovind (son of creationist Kent Hovind) debating YouTube celebrity atheist Tunderf00t. The entire debate really came down to the nature of "assumptions", "assertions", and "truth".

Unfortunately the debate didn't cover that area robustly enough, as the energetic Eric kept evading or completely missing the very scientific mind of Thunderf00t (who is actually a scientist of some discipline I'm not aware of).

 Curious, I decided to contact Eric (or at least someone who could satisfy my curiosity) - where I met Paul, who is currently displaying some fancy footwork himself. So far, this is how he's doing!

 TOMO:
I'm including 2 definitions here so that we can be on the same page.

as·ser·tion   [uh-sur-shuhn] Show IPA noun 1. a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason: a mere assertion; an unwarranted assertion. 


as·sump·tion   [uh-suhmp-shuhn] Show IPA noun 1. something taken for granted; a supposition: a correct assumption. Synonyms: presupposition; hypothesis, conjecture, guess, postulate, theory. 2. the act of taking for granted or supposing. Synonyms: presumption; presupposition. 


fact   [fakt] Show IPA noun 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact. 2. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth. 

What makes everything you claim about God and your religion a fact (by definition) rather than just an assumption or an assertion?


PAUL:

 Dear Sir,

I doubt if dictionary definitions can get us “on the same page”. Your question refers to truth.

By what standard can you determine whether or not something is true? How can you know whether something is true?

 Here’s an example, so you can see what I am getting at. a) 2 + 2 =5 b) 2 + 2 = 5million

Which incorrect equation is closer to the truth?

Paul Taylor, BSc MEd
Director of Ministry Development

TOMO:
Paragraph 1 is accurate, but you are missing WHY it is accurate.

I know for sure that 2+2=4 because it has never NOT equaled 4.

You say that God exists, but unlike 2+2= 4, you have no demonstration for this. You have no experiment, you have no proof. All you have is your assertion that God exists.

This is an assertion that is NOT based in fact, it is based on the assumption that what you believe is true. 

Interestingly enough, I'm willing to bet that you don't even know how to define God, let alone prove his existence. Again, we should have a common ground in order to have this discussion - so when you say "God", what do you mean? How do you define God (e.g. what are the primary attributes of the subject you are referring to)?

Based off of the context of your statements, you have said that god is "presuppositional" - which is a logical fallacy of "begging the question", or making an assumption that is not necessarily true.

You have also said that God is all knowing. How do you know this is true? How can you PROVE this to be true? How do you KNOW- how can you establish the fact - of "God's" presuppositional nature? What evidence can you provide that God exists, let alone is an assumption that MUST BE MADE in order to understand the world around us?

Secondly, we DO have a system in place for learning about the Universe without the need for god - it is called SCIENCE and it works remarkably well. Certainty has no place in Science because Science does not make the arrogant claim of certainty without proof.

What you do have in Science is something called provisional assent. This means that you can agree something is true within the given limitations of the observable evidence. For example, I easily give my provisional assent to the fact that the "Sun always rises in the east" because I have no evidence to the contrary.

However, if you were to provide some evidence to the contrary- and a conjecture or philosophical premise is NOT evidence - then I would have to adjust my provisional assent to reflect the new evidence. However, because the Sun has always risen in the east, and it always will, I can rely on the predictive ability of that statement.

Point of fact, you don't need a god (of any definition) for that to be true either, and I didn't need god to tell me its true as this is an observable fact of the world we live in.

Another point, in response to your straw man about the only way to know 100% of the knowledge in the universe - If as you say there is no knowledge without god, then there is no IGNORANCE without god as well.

As you have asserted, god has only revealed the knowledge that he wants us to have, so how is it that YOU have knowledge that says god exists and I don't? After all, if god wanted me to know he exists, all he has to do is give me that knowledge in a way I can comprehend - which if he is all knowing he should be capable of doing.

Please keep in mind, you CANNOT answer this question without making assumptions about me unless you ask god directly. I will caution you, logically speaking you know NOTHING about me and if you were to get to know me you might be surprised about what I believe, how I was raised, and what I have gone through to be where I am at today.

So, to review, in addition to my "bonus" question, would you please answer the following?

1. If you agree with the definitions I have proposed, then again I ask you, What makes everything you claim about God and your religion a fact (by definition) rather than just an assumption or an assertion?

 ALTERNATE - If you do not agree with those definitions, then what definitions WOULD you agree to in order that we can establish a common ground so that we can avoid a semantic debate.

2. When you say "God", what do you mean? How do you define God (e.g. what are the primary attributes of the subject you are referring to)?

3. How do you KNOW- how can you establish the fact - of "God's" presuppositional nature?

4. How can you establish God's alleged omniscience?

5. What evidence can you provide that God exists, let alone is an assumption that MUST BE MADE in order to understand the world around us?

 Please answer these questions first before making further arguments. These are simple questions regarding the claims you have made. We can hardly call it a discussion if the questions you leave unanswered keep growing exponentially.

PAUL:

Your arguments are fallacious. Without the existence of God, even your arguments against His existence have no basis. I have no need to prove the existence of God. His existence is self-evident. The burden of proof is on you to prove that he does not exist, even though His existence is self-evident. Yet you cannot offer such proof, because if He did not exist, then you would have no basis on which to rest your proof.

I think you require a course in logic.

Paul Taylor, BSc MEd
Director of Ministry Development

TOMO:

As you have just shown, being a Christian believer does not necessitate you being "Christ like".

Since you like and value the Bible so much, let me answer your insult with some "Biblical truth".

Now sanctify the Lord God in your hearts (minds); and always be prepared for (presenting) a logical defense to everyone who requests a reason from you concerning the hope which is among you, (doing so) with meekness and fear . . . – 1 Peter 3:15

Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. – Colossians 4:5-6

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; – Ephesians 4:14

Whom shall [God] teach knowledge? and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; – Isaiah 28:9-10.

But the simplest and shortest versus are my favorite:

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. – 1 Thessalonians 5:21

The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. – Proverbs 14:15

You seem to be making no effort to answer my courteous questions with courteous replies. You have also failed to answer my clearly stated questions.

I am NOT making the claim that god doesn't exist, I am simply asking for your evidence for your claim that he does. You also seem to be afraid to answer me point by point, even though I have been EXTREMELY candid and forthcoming with answers to your questions.

If you do not have answers to my questions, if there is something SPECIFICALLY FALLACIOUS about the questions I have proposed, kindly show me where I am in error SPECIFICALLY. Otherwise "I don't know" is a valid response.

Just because you ASSERT that existence of god is "self-evident" doesn't make it so. A "self-evident axiom" is something that IS, such as the world we live in, your existence, my existence, the sun, the moon, the stars, and any other materially present "thing" you can point to.

Immaterial concepts or subjects do not enjoy the same "assumption of existence" that physical and observable subjects have.

Additionally, you seem to be conflating laws of argumentation with the physical laws of the universe. It is true that what we do with Science follows logical laws, but an axiom is not a scientific truth.

To put it another way, we both agree that reality exists. This is an axiom.

We both agree that you and I exist. This is an axiom.

We both do NOT agree on the existence of YOUR god - you have also failed to provide a definition we can both agree on - thus God and his/her/its existence is NOT an axiom.

Since this is a point of contention between us, this is where our discussion must necessarily start from, so that we can establish some common ground. This is the way civilized people understand the world around them better.

If something is "self-evident" that means no one will reasonably argue its existence.

Why is it unreasonable for me to not believe in this thing you have proposed that you haven't defined, explained, demonstrated in any way, which you also cannot point to and refuse to provide me evidence for?

What have I proposed to you under similar restrictions that you have willingly accepted or would be willing to accept?

So, I claim to have no knowledge of what you are talking about (the existence of God). If this concept is as you claim, self-evident, it should be child's play for you to tell me why. The onus of proof is on YOU to provide evidence and a definition for the concept you are talking about.

It is impossible for me to prove something false or disagree with something that you can't properly define or explain. All I can do is either agree with you or disagree based on the evidence you provide.

So once again, I ask you (with yet ANOTHER addition to the litany of questions you have left unanswered): 1. If you agree with the definitions I have proposed, then again I ask you, What makes everything you claim about God and your religion a fact (by definition) rather than just an assumption or an assertion? 

ALTERNATE - If you do not agree with those definitions, then what definitions WOULD you agree to in order that we can establish a common ground so that we can avoid a semantic debate.

2.When you say "God", what do you mean? How do you define God (e.g. what are the primary attributes of the subject you are referring to)?

3. How do you KNOW- how can you establish the fact - of "God's" presuppositional nature?

4. How can you establish God's alleged omniscience?

5. Of the above definitions and points - what makes "God's existence" self-evident? **NEW** :-)

6. What evidence can you provide that God exists, let alone is an assumption that MUST BE MADE in order to understand the world around us?

I have included a link for your review that may be useful in keeping this discussion productive, enlightened, and respectful.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/how-to-have-a-rational-discussion

Respectfully,
Tomo

PAUL:

As an unbeliever, you have no concept of what it means to be Christ-like. And as for biblical truth – what is truth? You have no foundation for your truth.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

Paul Taylor, BSc MEd

Director of Ministry Development

TOMO:

 Does being Christ-like mean making assumptions about people Paul? Did I miss the biblical passage where Jesus states the "parable of why assumptions are awesome"?

Whether I know or not is something else we could debate, but YOU are the one that has to reconcile your actions with the scripture from YOUR bible.

As for what is truth - we've already covered this ground Paul - or did you want the dictionary definition?

truth

   [trooth]  Show IPA

noun, plural truths  [troothz, trooths]  Show IPA.

1.

the true  or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out thetruth.

2.

conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of astatement.

3.

a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or thelike: mathematical truths.

4.

the state or character of being true.

5.

actuality or actual existence.

We can measure the truth of something by its predictive reliability. If something is true, then any predictions that rely (e.g. could not happen otherwise) on that thing being true would occur.

As for whether I'm a good person, I certainly try to be. I make mistakes, but I'm only human, and I can forgive myself the "bad" things that I do as long as I do my best to make things right.

However Paul, you are once again avoiding my questions. *Tsk tsk*. You didn't read the flow chart I sent you on the rules for a rational discussion, did you?

Please, answer my initial questions... they are important to the discussion. Even more importantly, In spite of OBVIOUSLY disagreeing with you, I have answered every single point and question that you have given to me.

I haven't avoided them.

I haven't talked around them.

I haven't equivocated or retreated by a wall of speculation.

You have asked questions and I have answered. Please do the same. 

For easy reference, here are the questions I have asked you:

1. If you agree with the definitions I have proposed, then again I ask you,  What makes everything you claim about God and your religion a fact (by definition) rather than just an assumption or an assertion? 

ALTERNATE - If you do not agree with those definitions, then what definitions WOULD you agree to in order that we can establish a common ground so that we can avoid a semantic debate.

2.When you say "God", what do you mean? How do you define God (e.g. what are the primary attributes of the subject you are referring to)?

3. How do you KNOW- how can you establish the fact - of "God's" presuppositional nature? 

4. How can you establish God's alleged omniscience?

5. Of the above definitions and points - what makes "God's existence" self-evident? ***NEW***   :-)

6. What evidence can you provide that God exists, let alone is an assumption that MUST BE MADE in order to understand the world around us?

I have included a link for your review that may be useful in keeping this discussion productive, enlightened, and respectful.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/how-to-have-a-rational-discussion/

 *** To be continued? *****

I wonder if he actually WILL answer my questions, or if he's just another close-minded pseudo-intellectual who is better at deflecting than analyzing. :p

Pregnancy and Weight Gain Tips For Avoiding Excessive Weight Gain during Pregnancy

Check out here for more details!

When it comes to living a long and healthy life, there are two necessary ingredients: diet and fitness. While some believe that they are one thing all together, nothing could be further from the truth. It is quite possible to have a perfectly healthy diet with deplorable fitness habits. It is equally possible to be very physically fit with less than savory eating habits.

There’s a clever little line in the Jimmy Buffet song “Fruitcakes” when his ‘lady’ is lamenting:
“I treat my body like a temple
You treat yours like a tent”

I can’t help but think of this line whenever I think about all the people around the world who are going on these garbage in, garbage out diet plans hoping to achieve the weight loss success of those who are endorsing these products.

To be completely honest, it is possible to shed pounds through diet alone. It is difficult but possible. It is also possible to be physically fit and have a few extra pounds hanging around. To a large degree we are what we eat. If we consume a high fat low substance diet our bodies are going to lack the fuel required to burn the fat. At the same time if we aren’t providing our bodies with the tools it needs to build muscle it doesn’t matter how many weights we lift.

When it comes to diet and fitness, the best results are achieved when they work together rather than separately. Use your fitness routine to burn excess calories and use your diet in order to properly provide your body the nutrients and fuel it needs to build muscle. I’ve heard many times in my life that a pound of muscle weighs less than a pound of fat. While this is not true at all, a pound is a pound regardless; a pound of muscle occupies less space on the body than a pound of fat. Pound for pound, I would much rather mine be composed of muscle than fat. Dieting alone does not build muscle and that is something you will do well to remember in your efforts.

You should also realize that as you are building muscle you may be shedding inches while not showing a great deal of progress on the scale. It is very important that you keep this in mind throughout the weight loss process. Do not measure your progress by the scales alone or you will achieve misleading results. The problem is that far too many people do just this and get frustrated and give up when they are actually making progress. Do not allow yourself to be a victim of the scales. Look in the mirror, try on your tight pants, and measure your waistline. Measure your success by how you feel after climbing a flight of stairs not by how many pounds fell of the scale this week.

By incorporating fitness into your diet routine you are also enabling your body to burn off any extra calories you may have consumed during the day. This means that if you want to have a small ‘cheat’ during your day, you can make up for it by burning a few more calories than normal in the evening. This isn’t something that should happen often but an occasional occurrence isn’t going to make or break your diet.

You should also look at dieting and fitness as a ball and glove type of relationship. While you can play ball without the glove, it seems to work so much better if you have both. Diet and fitness when combined can create fantastic weight loss results for those who take them both seriously. The thing to remember is that neither works as well alone and neither will work unless you are willing to do the work. You must make this a priority in your life in order to achieve the best possible results.

So now, let’s take a look at some specific ways you can start looking and feeling healthy.

Nutrition: Nutrition is the most important part of athletic/fitness achievement. A proper nutrition program is eighty percent of an effective fitness program! Proper eating habits must be consistent, efficient and persistent. Adhering to proper and consistent nutrition will ensure maximum performance for your workouts and maximize results achieved from your exercise program. If you choose not to follow a good nutrition program, you can plan on seeing about twenty percent of the results that would be possible.

Water: Water is the most important nutrient in your body, and is essential to a good, healthy diet. You must drink at least 80-100 oz. (10-12 glasses) every day. No exceptions!

Foods: Your daily food intake should consist of 30% protein, 50% carbohydrates and 20% fats. Eat good, lean sources of protein such as fish, chicken breast, turkey breast, egg whites, or any of numerous protein powders/shakes that are on the market. Its best to consume complex carbohydrates such as white and brown rice, sweet and white potatoes, fresh fruit and vegetables, Low-fat whole wheat bread or wheat/oat bagels. You do need to allow for some fat in your diet, but try to avoid saturated fat from animal protein. Try to get you fat from monounsaturated sources like, olive oil, walnuts, peanuts, almonds and various others. Allow yourself one small dessert daily (don't go overboard). A little treat can take the edge off, but that's it, only one time daily! Oh, if your not already a label reader you are going to need to become one. Unless you're a dietitian or nutritionist you're probably not going to always know what you're eating, so always read the nutrition label.

Avoid : High calorie foods and dishes containing fatty dairy products, and high saturated fat. If you must eat something really fattening, eat only small, cautious and infrequent portions. Whenever possible avoid rich dressings and dips altogether. Don't eat desserts before bed and avoid anything two hours before bedtime if possible. You do not burn a lot of calories while sleeping. Calories in your stomach during sleep risk being stored as fat.

Try to get in the habit of eating for what you are going to do, instead of what you have done. If you are going to be burning a lot of calories, eat more complex-carbohydrates. If you are going to be lying around, eat less.

Multivitamin/mineral and Protein supplements: As your diet may be lacking in the essential vitamins and minerals, it is a good idea to get a time-released multivitamin. Get something a little better than Centrum. Most gym and health food stores offer a variety of good and effective vitamin formulas. A power/shake mix is another useful aid in your quest for a faster, more efficient metabolism. It is an easy way to get in a quick meal replacement, but don't make these the bulk of your diet. Try to limit yourself to around two liquid meals daily with the other 2-4 meals being solid meals. The shakes contain high quality protein; some even contain carbohydrates, so pick one you like and use it in conjunction with your food. Supplement shakes are a quick alternative to eating a meal. A shake can be blended up on the run, quickly and efficiently.

Meal Frequency: Meals need to be eaten more frequently and in smaller portions, three to four hours apart. Frequent meals are important in helping to speed up your metabolism. Speeding up your metabolism is the only way to permanently lose body fat and obtain lean muscle mass. When you begin eating your meals more frequently your body will begin to burn energy at a faster rate. A faster metabolism will result in more calories being burned during the day, as well as giving you higher levels of energy. Eat 4-6 small meals each day!

The Cooler Plan: Avoid eating out at all cost! This may be extremely hard for some and easier for others. Restaurant food simply is not going to be low in fat. If a restaurant does serve some lean dishes, you are probably not going to be lucky enough to have ordered it. The bottom line is you don't always know what you are getting. It is amazing how it always taste better at the restaurant. Have you every wondered why? Fat and sodium that's why! Good old grocery store food will be leaner every time (nobody said it would taste better!). You are going to need to get in the habit of precooking/preparing your meals! Here is where Mr. Coleman and his products come in handy. A hand held carry cooler will save you every time, provided it is packed with your low fat, home cooked meals. You are going to need to plan ahead of time (always) in order to have meals prepared to eat. Find low-fat foods that you can tolerate, and stick to them. You need to allow time to ease into your new way of eating. Some may need only a couple of weeks others may need a few months, but your efforts must be consistent. Consistency in your meals and efforts are required for successful transition to living a low fat, high protein, frequent meal, and lifestyle. A drastic change in your eating habits is not something that you can just jump into.

Challenge: Getting and maintaining a consistently low body fat is something that requires a certain amount of personal challenge and sacrifice. For many, this will require a lifestyle change. Let's face it! There are not a lot of really lean folks out there, and with today's fast pace society it can be difficult to eat frequently. Eating a small meal every three to four hours can be done. It may require a bit more time, but if you learn to think and plan your grocery store visit and your meals, well ahead of time, you are certain to be successful. I recommend making a priority list. Make a List your priorities and remember that a serious diet needs to be way up there on your list! Your quest for a faster and more energy efficient metabolism needs to be your focus, as you make changes in your eating habits.

Effective Time Management: Many people fail in their quest to get lean because they do not utilize time better, and more efficiently. Allocating time to eat in frequent intervals and to religiously perform cardiovascular work combined with weight training is the core to lowering your body fat. It is simply a matter of giving up leisure time to prepare meals and workout! Certainly, a learner healthier body is worth a few hour of your leisure time. If you are going to get lean, you must plan your day thoroughly. Spontaneity will kill your lean and frequent eating habits every time. Plan out your day, everyday, and work your plan!

Eliminate Negative Influences: Getting away for those negative influences in your life is a huge part of getting lean. This bad influence could be anyone, brother, husband, wife, best friends, etc. I am not saying that you should completely block them out of your life, but resist the negative statements, comments or actions that they may have towards your fitness goals. If your particular negative influence is not a loved one, try to eliminate hanging around them all together, at least for the first few months of starting this program. Remember, a person that does not care about getting lean and physically fit, is prone to drag others down with them. Do not let anyone, or anything sideline you. Stay focused on your goals!

Cardiovascular Exercise: (Running, Walking, Stepper, Treadmill, Bike, etc.) Consistently performing cardiovascular exercises is essential to speeding up your metabolism and effective in burning away fat, as well as strengthening the heart. Your card exercise is best done when blood sugar is low. First thing in the morning or after you workouts, are the best and most effective times to do your cardio. You need to do at least 20 min. and no more than an hour per session. In order for cardio to be effective, it must be done no less than three times weekly. It needs to be somewhat difficult, really working hard but not to the point to where you can't talk or hold a conversation (don't go so fast that you are gasping for your breath) but get moving! Keep your pulse rate at your target heart range (Take 220 minus your age), then work at 60-75% of that for the endurance of your session. For Example: If you are 40 years old (220-40=180) to get your maximum working heart rate. Then 180 multiplied by .75=135 Beats per min. 135 beats per minute being your target heart rate, and needs to be maintained during you cardio session. Oh yeah, vary your cardio exercises, maybe do the stepper for 15min. and then the treadmill for 15. Variation may prevent burnout, and shock your muscles, but remember to sustain 60-75% of your maximum heart rate. Maintaining a certain amount of intensity during your cardiovascular exercise will help ensure that your metabolism speeds up.

Recovery: Your body will need rest to achieve your fitness goals. Never workout more than 4 days a week and be sure to get 6-8 hours of sleep nightly. One of the most common mistakes among gym patrons is over training! Don't fall victim to over training. Too much of a good thing can be bad.

Consistency: is the most important thing of all, in both your eating habits as well as your weight training and cardiovascular exercise. You must perform at least three days of each in order to see results! Less than three days a week just doesn't cut it for most. Remember that in order to keep fat off permanently, you must speed up your metabolism. A faster metabolism will result in more calories being burned during the day. Your metabolic rate will not speed up unless you are consistent in your cardio and weight training efforts.

Finally, let’s take a look at how how you can use “Negative Calories” to help achieve your weight loss goals.

DIET USING NEGATIVE CALORIES

We can have a diet using negative calories. The main idea is that our body uses more calories to digest some aliments than the calories we know those aliments contain themselves by analyzing the combination of nutritional components of the specific aliments. If we burn more calories than we consume, then we will lose weight.

The theory is in fact very appealing: the body has to consume energy in order to digest the food. For example, an orange has about 50 calories. To process all nutritional components and vitamins that an orange contains, our body will burn more than just 50 calories.

The diet using negative calories is more a solution we can call on in some specific periods, when our body is overwhelmed with nutrition, like holidays, Christmas, New Year’s, birthdays, weddings, and less of a solution that can be used on a long term.

Some specialists say that the lost of weight is obtained mostly by losing parts of the muscular tissue, which is not recommended at all.

So if you decide to use the diet with negative calories keep in mind the following:

- Make sure it is done in a period your body has already too many calories stored and you won’t be affecting your health by doing this.
- Ask a medic if you can resist only eating this types of aliments and also ask him the time limit for this diet in your case so you can avoid getting sick.
- Try to combine them as much as you can, do not eat just oranges or other fruits that contain citric acid as they are not good for your stomach activity when eaten in huge quantities.
- Review your schedule for the days you want to use this diet and make sure you don’t have any important or stressful things to do. Stress also causes caloric burn and weight reduction and if it occurs during a diet that weakens the organism you can feel physically powerless. If such a thing happens give up on the diet and eat something with many calories and glucose fast.

If all above points are checked and passed you can start a negative calories diet and give a try to actually eating something instead of taking slim pills and drinking tea.

For more great health and weightloss advice, for a real chance at easily having the body you’ve always dreamed of, visit www.URLHERE.com today!